Now i have a question for you since i've notice you have NOTHING TO SHOW...WHERE IS YOUR TALENT?? I think you fit a little to tight on this sub...ty

Isn't this type of argument part of what everyone found so bad about this place? Go ahead, look in my profile. I have nothing here. Some of us are skin lovers. WC seems to appreciate us too.

I'm sorry but I"m not very familiar with you either. I do know you've downloaded going on a GIGABYTE of data from here so you apparently like using WinCustomize.com. I couldn't find any skisn or themes (yes I realize you say you've deleted them all) but without anythign to your name, you really don't have very much clout other than lofty claims.

That's the thing "AP67" without your skins and themes, you're just another user, so I don't see any contribution to the community to back up your ego.

 

Brad you have been reading me all wrong.
I never stated I dont like WC. I never stated this is a bad site.
I became a member of this site for the simple reason that it has lots of good things in it. I went from a regular user to a contributor when I started submiting my walldesings, I later became a costumer when I purchase some of the products from Stardock and added skins to my contribution. It was in this site that I learn to skin and came across a lot of great artists.
My issues [and maybe the issues of others] revolves around the treatment given to the artists. And as justifying as that treatment may be to you and other staff members, it is unfair and rather degrading to others.
Yes I download many designs from this site. They are good designs from real good artists.
Now you will not find any trace of my work or the download count they pulled because I deleted them. And the choice I made to go back to just another user, is simply for the fact that it has been stated here over and over again, that we are nothing but just another artist of the bunch, or as someone eloquently stated it, we are 'ten a penny'
BTW, my ego is in check and it has no input in this matter.

once again, we are accused of unfair and degrading treatment of artists.

where? how? who did it?

I asked for the people making these claims to offer their argument with something specific, some facts,  and to offer a solution. So far no one has.

DavidK, you mean to tell me that all this rude responses filled with all type of sarcasm and mockery whenever an artist or user post or shows any type of concern in regards to a certain topic is normal to you?
Is this the type of behavior you will expect from people? If an admin, moderator, or any staff member feels the need to vent about anything, we must remain calm and sympathize with their issues, but God ever forbids that a regular [and I use the term 'regular' loosely] artist or user attempts to the same, because all they will get is a -live with it or get out, we don’t need the drama-

Perhaps there are set of rules that only apply to a certain group and not to others.

Exactly. I hear charges of poor treatment of artists without any supporting evidence. 

As for AP67, for someone who's downloaded so much from the site, I'd think you would feel some sort of...well responsibility to give something back. Just because you've bought software from Stardock doesn't even begin to cover the costs of running this site.

I'm afraid that ultimately it's people like you who download over half a gig of data without contributing anything that will eventually require that users who download more than say 250 megs will have to subscribe to the site even if they've purchased software.

Normally, people who download that large amount of content from the site try to contribute something back. In your case, you were submitting skins and themes and walls apparently. Now you say you've deleted them. Over what?

Who's the one taking from the community and not giving back? Just remember this day when the time comes when unlimited downloads come to an end for non-WC subscribers.

While you may think dA is a panacea, perhaps you should go and look at how many downlaods the most popular deviations have there of all time. Here, download counts on a skin can reach the hundreds of thousands.

Put another way, "stuff" on this site gets downloaded a lot. A WHOLE LOT.  Even drek gets download a lot for some reason. Yesterday's most popular wallpaper here got about 600 downloads. Can you find a wallpaper on dA with half that per day? A quarter that? A fifth of that? That's because dA is an art community. It'd designed for artists to put up their work (of all kinds) for personal use and sharing with friends.  WinCustomize is a skin site designed to distribute skins, themes, and wallpapers to users on a massive scale.

That's why we have to take care on what gets up there. You've downloaded going on a gigabyte here. How much do youthink you've dl'd from dA? I doubt even a quarter that amount. Why is that?

A community works by give and take. You've used this site a great deal. You haven't subscribed to it though.  And what things you did contribute you say you've deleted.  And yet those who feel like you do think of WinCustomize as some sort of restraunt and yourselves as customers of the site. 

A user with a WinCustomize subscripotion is a customer of the site.

A user who submits artwork and skins and themes isn't necessarily customer but is a contributing member of the community.

A user who helps out in the forums isn't necessarily a customer but is also a contributing member of the community.

You're not a WC subscriber, you have no wrok here, and I don't see you helping out on the forums but you have downloaded going on a gigabyte of stuff. So what niche would you classify yourself as being in?

David, in part, in the past that I've seen, some people have taken umbrage at comments made by other posters (I'm not talking Admins, mods or Brad, just other members of the site) and then took it as representative of the site and evidently site management. (I base this on their comments indicating that they did.) As above, I believe someone responded in such a manner to Fuzzy's comments. Although as far as I'm aware, Fuzzy is not part of the "management team" at WC. Thus the origin of some "WC is disrespectful to artists" comments. (Again, I'm only referencing such comments made in response to other comments on the messageboard. Not talking about other issues that may be related to moderation, download counts, ratings, etc.)

Also, in fairness, while I don't particularly agree with Lady A and Apocalypse, I think they've done some rather fine work. So I don't think people making negative assumptions/comments about their work or their talents, without having seen it, is either fair or accurate.

At the same time, however, I don't see the point of leaving a place and then coming back and saying another place rules yay, yay, yay like cheerleaders of the opposing team at a high school football game. I suspect if people went to DA or other places and said how better WC is, etc, that would not be particularly appreciated or considered good form. JMO, again.

sig101...possibly you have a point there...that the source of the 'bashing' is from other members rather than actual admins reflecting some site 'policy'.

Admins will naturally find it comparatively difficult to balance the stifling of free opinion against the alleged abuse/attack upon another individual.

We tell them to 'lift their game' and are known to remove 'extreme' comment/s ....and obviously permanently remove those who are hell-bent on disruption...[the brainless ones with the gutter-mouth].

Therefore the choice can be ...treat everyone with kid gloves and censor anything remotely related to an attack or a jibe or a barb....or assume [hope] intelligence and maturity will handle the 'minor' issues and just look after the 'major' which may be beyond reason....

#51 by Scribe Frogboy - 7/27/2003 3:24:47 PM Even drek gets download a lot for some reason.

1 entry found for dreck.
dreck ( P ) Pronunciation Key (drk)
n. Slang
Trash, especially inferior merchandise.


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[German, dirt, trash, and Yiddish drek, excrement both from Middle High German drec, from Old High German. See sker-3 in Indo-European Roots.]
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My comments were due to me being angry at yet another baseless and snide attack aimed at WC. Read the comments directly above mine:

Aaaahhhh this place drove away another brilliant artist?! All hail Deviant Art Great community.........great artists..............great friends............NO MODERATORS!!!!! Here Here Green Armani! Hail Deviant Art! FRIENDLY Community.......... Indeed GREAT Artists.....Great Friends INDEED.........AMEN TO NO MODERATORS....and art to your hearts content! Welcome to DA Apocalypse!!!!!!!!

Highly inflammatory stuff. Really, we have had enough of this. All we get is one thread after another issuing criticism without fact. Opinions fine, but you have to base them on something...

Personally I wish those who are disgruntled would just leave.

It takes a certain kind of arrogance to think that ones value is so great that they think their presence is so important that they stick around long after having publicly acclaimed other sites while denigrating this one.

I have no idea who Lady Ashaka is nor do I really care. I just wish she and her ilk would find somewhere else to perform their dramas.

quote: "all this rude responses filled with all type of sarcasm and mockery whenever an artist or user post or shows any type of concern in regards to a certain topic"

What are you saying? This sounds to me like the same argument I have (though stretched across a broad generality) about the message board. I don't like the way people get attakced by members here when they bring up controversial subjects and I've stated that on many occaisons. btw - the only reason some subjects are "controversial" is because of the behavior of some people on the message board.

If this is the case, could it be that you really have no idea who is a site admin and who is a member? Would you like this site better if everytime a member spoke out an admin jumped in and scolded them? I don't know what the answer is to improve a message board's manners but I certainly wouldn't accuse a site of crimes against artists unless the site staff were actually committing the crimes. Which I don't think is the case.

Another thought comes to mind, the sense of humor and familiarity. If we don't know we are being judged so harshly by the people around us, we might tend to be less guarded in our comments, assuming we are among friends and little jokes will be taken as harmless if that is the intent. If we suddenly realize there are people who are looking for slip-ups in our political-correctness we would be much more guarded in how we respond, knowing we are no longer just "among friends". Which way sounds more like a place you want to be? Which way sounds like there is some trust and some honor involved? Which one are you promoting?

Come on A67 or Lady Ahaska.........please answer DavidK's question....where, what, who etc. and give us some solutions of your own.If you feel something is not right tell us what it is.If you want us to listen to you and others and your "beefs" either as they say "put up or shut up" and i mean this in a very genuine and pleasant way. I am a newbie at designing and i thoroughly enjoy WC and i have asked for help etc. several times and the Community here from the top admins right down to the citizens have been terrific and helpful. I love it here and i know a lot of other people whether they be Artists or Appreciators do likewise and i am sure that WC will go from strength to strength.

seems Jafo said basically the same thing while I was typing mine...

#51 nice
solution, ask 2 cent per skin, 1 for the artist and 1 for WC.